Obama’s crime in this regard - the continuing questions about his birth certificate - is not whether he’s a citizen or not. It’s simply that he won’t produce the relevant papers. Imagine a cop stopping you for running a stop sign and asking you for your driver’s license, registration, and insurance card. You refuse. He would then be duty-bound to impound your vehicle and arrest you on the spot.
The trouble is that there is no “controlling legal authority” prepared to challenge this president on this particular matter. In the absence of such authority, the president himself is the law. He is, in effect, above the law. It also becomes a question of who works for whom.
To date, Obama has spent 1.5 million taxpayer dollars defending himself against lawsuits questioning his status. He would not be doing that if he had nothing to hide.
I do not doubt that Obama is a citizen. Otherwise, his chutzpah would fall too far afield of probability. Even ‘audacity (of hope)’ wouldn’t cover it. No. Much more likely is that the actual birth certificate would show Obama to be a card-carrying Muslim. And remember how much trouble Kennedy had just being a Catholic?
In Obama’s case the cover-up will turn out to be his undoing - as Nixon found out.
http://pkoelliker.blogspot.com/
Posts
Peter, whether he considers himself a Muslim is beside the point. According to Islamic belief and, therefore, according to the Muslim world, he is a Muslim because his father was a Muslim, and the Muslim world has a right to demand certain allegiances from him. It's as simple as that.
ReplyDeleteWhether he is or is not a practicing Muslim matters little, in my opinion, whereas the issue of valid citizenship is far more important. As a nation, we have to decide whether we are a nation held together by Constitutional law and our founding principles or a nation of one man's whims, as you describe. Times may change and circumstances may change, but principles don't. A line from Austen's "Manfield Park" sticks in my head: "No, she was not cruel. Her principles are wrong." And, as my daughter said once, "What good are principles if you just throw them away when things get tough?" Sorry for the quotations, but the words of an old hymn apply: "Once to every man and nation comes the moment to decide."
People may complain that it's an insignificant issue, that it's no big deal, but, in fact, the future of our country hangs on it. The whole angelic host hovers over us holding their collective breath in fear and trembling, waiting for our decision. Also, if it's no big deal, why is he taking such a recalcitrant stand? I think it's a big deal to him, and if it's a big deal to him then it had better be a big deal to us.
I hadn’t thought about it for a long time, but now it just won’t let go. Imagine, if our illustrious president isn’t who he says he is! How would that reflect on us? On our nation? Perhaps it’s better just to pretend.
ReplyDeleteI’m reminded of a Monty Python’s ‘Dead Parrot Sketch’ in which the customer returns a dead bird to a pet shop. ‘It just won’t eat‘, he says. The pet shop owner insists it’s alive - just hanging upside down from its perch (despite that’s what birds never do).
I honestly think we couldn’t recover if we were ever to find out that our president is not constitutionally legitimate. Where was the media? Where was the law? Where were the courts? It would amount to someone practicing medicine without a license - only much worse: quite on the level of a nuclear holocaust. Maybe there are some things we should never know - like who shot Kennedy and why.
We’d all look like such complete fools - millions of hours of public debate simply stricken from the record. And still there would be those who would say it doesn’t matter - like our borders don’t matter; or our laws don’t matter; or the Constitution doesn‘t matter; or our sovereignty doesn’t matter; or America itself null and void - reaching way beyond into our relationship with every nation - friend or foe alike - on this blessed earth.
And perhaps it’s already happened. And it’s just us who refuse to see, pretending the bird isn’t dead; that we are not really the butt of some monumental joke.
God help us, should we ever find out.
"God help us, should we ever find out."
ReplyDeleteDo you mean, just like we should never be told that we have a malignant growth in our body?
I love your analogy of the dead bird. Maybe we should just pretend that everything will be all right, If we just ignore it, the whole thing will go away. We can just file it away--under what heading?
1. Unintended Consequences of our good intentions?
2. We made our bed, now we must lie in it?
3. Removed the tumor. The operations was a success but the patient died?
4. A stitch in time could have saved nine?
5. Marry in haste; repent in leisure?
6. The cure will be worse than the disease?
7. The sins of the fathers will be visited upon . . .
8. (My personal favorite) Be careful what you wish/pray for (the truth exposed), you might get it.
There are no good answers, are there. Devastation lies in all directions.
"If I walk out into the field,
look! those slain by the sword;
if I enter the city,
look! those consumed by hunger.
Even the prophet and the priest
forage in a land they know not."
BTW, the book "In Soft Garments" by Ronald Knox has a wonderful chapter called ' "Mind" and "Matter" '. He asks, who minds and what matters and why? among other things.
Re: "Much more likely is that the actual birth certificate would show Obama to be a card-carrying Muslim..."
ReplyDeleteIf you do a little research, see this picture (http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=105347), you will see that there is no place on the original birth certificate that lists the religion of the child. It also does not list the religion of the parents. It does list their race, but not their religions. And it does not list whether or not they were married.
Looking closely, there is nothing embarrassing that the original could list. The facts on the original are the same as on the new short form because the facts on the short form came from the original. So the only details missing are the name of the doctor and the hospital--and who really cares about them? (And in any case the current governor of Hawaii and the former governor, a Republican have both said that Obama was born at Kapiolani hospital).
Peter, I just read all the comments on this issue on JB's site. One issue was not mentioned regarding his mother's citizenship. it is my understanding that, in order for a mother's citizenship to be passed on, she had to have been an adult citizen for three years before the birth. I believe that she was 18 at the time of the birth, failing to meet that stipulation.
ReplyDeleteFor an issue that everybody wants to avoid, it sure is getting a lot of space in a very intellectual website. Some things just won't go away, such as malignancies and pebbles in shoes, and lies. They are "matters" that demand our "minding"-- to play on Knox's book.
Re: "it is my understanding that, in order for a mother's citizenship to be passed on, she had to have been an adult citizen for three years before the birth. "
ReplyDeleteAnswer: That only applies to births outside of the USA. For births INSIDE the USA, the mother can be any age, and the child is both a citizen and a natural born citizen. Every child born in the USA (except for those of foreign diplomats) is a Natural Born Citizen. The only kind of a citizen who is not a Natural Born Citizen is a naturalized citizen.
"Therefore every person born within the United States, its territories or districts, whether the parents are citizens or aliens, is a natural born citizen in the sense of the Constitution, and entitled to all the rights and privileges appertaining to that capacity."---William Rawle, A VIEW OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. 2d ed. (1829)
“Under the longstanding English common-law principle of jus soli, persons born within the territory of the sovereign (other than children of enemy aliens or foreign diplomats) are citizens from birth. Thus, those persons born within the United States are "natural born citizens" and eligible to be President. Much less certain, however, is whether children born abroad of United States citizens are "natural born citizens" eligible to serve as President ..."---- Edwin Meese, et al, THE HERITAGE GUIDE TO THE CONSTITUTION (2005) [Edwin Meese was Ronald Reagan’s attorney general, and the Heritage Foundation is a well-known Conservative organization.]
“Natural born citizen. Persons who are born within the jurisdiction of a national government, i.e. in its territorial limits, or those born of citizens temporarily residing abroad.” — Black’s Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition
Obama was born INSIDE the USA, as his official birth certificate from Hawaii shows, and has been repeatedly confirmed by the officials in Hawaii (who happen to be members of a Republican governor's administration).
"...children of enemy aliens"?
ReplyDeleteRe children of enemy aliens. Yes, according to the British common law that referred only to the children of members of foreign invading armies.
ReplyDelete"Obama was born INSIDE the USA, as his official birth certificate from Hawaii shows,"
ReplyDeleteBut I thought that THAT was the issue. His official birth certificate has never been seen except by one person who says, "Trust me."
Thank you for the clarification about his mother's age/citizenship. I had neglected to add that my understanding was that, at the time of the birth, the 3-year adult citizenship requirement was in effect in Hawaii, but changed a few years later, possibly to conform to the mainland. One further note, I don't think a Republican governor wants to stir up a hornets' nest of this sort any more than a Democratic governor, so I find no assurance from that quarter. :)
Just to let you know, I have never cared who killed Kennedy or how many shots were fired from where or by whom, and I don't think that George Bush blew up the World Trade Center. IOWs, I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories. :)
ReplyDeleteRe: "One further note, I don't think a Republican governor wants to stir up a hornets' nest of this sort any more than a Democratic governor, so I find no assurance from that quarter. :) "
ReplyDeleteSo you are saying that a Republican governor would actually lie to protect Obama? Why should she, she could just keep quite. You know, of course, that during the last four years, the attorney general of Hawaii was a CONSERVATIVE Republican. So, if she had lied, he would have prosecuted her, and the other two officials. But he did not do any such thing.
We have the official birth certificate and the confirmation of the witness who was told of his birth in Hawaii in 1961 and wrote home about it, and we have the notices in the newspapers in 1961--and they were only sent out by the department of vital records for births in Hawaii and not for births outside of Hawaii, and we have the repeated confirmations of the officials, including the governor of Hawaii.
Hawaii sends out only the new, short-form Certification of Live Birth, and has sent out only the new official Certification to everyone since it became the official birth certificate in 2001. That was the birth certificate that Hawaii sent to Obama in 2007, so it is the only one that Obama can show.
Sure, Hawaii can change its rules or change its law to send out the original again (and already some birthers are claiming that it will be a forgery), but until then we already have the official birth certificate and the confirmation of the officials and the witness.
Oh, and by the way, Hawaii never allowed a birth certificate or a birth document of any kind to go out with a lie about the place of birth. Thus it has been changed recently (not in 1961 by the way) to allow Hawaii birth certificates to be issued to the children of residents when they give birth outside of the state. But the certificate then has to state the actual place of birth, such as: "Hawaii Certification of Live Birth: Place of Birth: New Jersey (or wherever)." But Obama's published Certification states that he was born in Honolulu, and that is the fact that the three officials have repeatedly confirmed, and is confirmed by the witness too.
'So you are saying that a Republican governor would actually lie to protect Obama'
ReplyDeleteNo, to protect him/herself, especially if the first verification was given off-handedly, before it all became an issue, and, having expressed an opinion would not give an opposing opinion in order to protect him/herself from accusations.
It's not quite the same thing, but I can't help but recall the situation at the Moscow airport when we were taking our leave from our son who lives there. He pointed to a man in a green military uniform, hat and all, sitting at a great big elevated desk, smoking a cigarette, deeply engrossed in his newspaper. The desk was bare, except for his newspaper and a small sign that said, "Information" in Russian. My son said to us, "Under no circumstances ask that man a question. If you do, he will make your life living hell." Sort of reminds me, in an oblique way, of politicians, especially politicians who want to protect their images and their jobs.
"So the only details missing are the name of the doctor and the hospital--and who really cares about them?"
ReplyDeleteAnd we have come full circle. It is because Nancy Pelosi, et al., said, "and who really cares about them?", referring to the clause in the Constitution that states the citizenship requirements of the president, that we are in this place to begin with.
It's those details that will trip you up every time. They may be small details, but they are there for a reason, and, when somebody asks, "Who really cares about them?", a warning bell should sound, and a whole bunch of people had better be ready to say, "I do."
Sorry, Peter, to be taking up so much of your space. My apology.
A total of FOUR officials would have to be lying for the information on the original birth certificate to be different from the information on the new short form birth certificate: The original clerk who filled in the form (from the facts on the original, of course), the two officials who confirmed, and then governor. And, it would be a stupid lie because if they were lying the document in the file would disprove what they said. And there would be heavy penalties for such a lie, such as prosecution, and as I said, the attorney general of Hawaii was a CONSERVATIVE Republican.
ReplyDeleteOnly if the document in the files was itself forged would the officials not be lying. But birthers are calling for the release of the original saying that it would prove or disprove Obama's birth in Hawaii.
There are, of course, the notices in the newspapers in 1961. They were sent out only by the government and only for births IN Hawaii. Do you think that the officials in Hawaii were lying in 1961 also?
Some birthers say that the notices can be explained by the grandmother "walking in" and claiming that Obama was born at home without any witnesses. BUT there is evidence that Hawaii did not allow such "walk in" registrations in 1961 and that in fact it demanded proof of the location of birth then, as it does now.
And there is this witness http://www.buffalonews.com/incoming/article137495.ece, who recalls being told of Obama's birth in 1961 and writing home to her father, named Stanley, of the unusual event of a woman named Stanley giving birth that day.
In addition to all that proof on the Hawaii side, there is the absence of proof--or even a rational story--that Obama was born in any other country than the USA.
You know of course, that unless a child was smuggled across the Mexican or Canadian border, she or he would have to go through US Immigration, and that would be necessary if the child were born in Kenya for sure.
Yet to get through US immigration a child born outside the USA would have to show either a US visa on a foreign passport or to be entered on or her or his mother's US passport, and either of them would have had to have been applied for in a foreign country--such as in Kenya. And, it would have been easy to find such a document, but none has been found. There is not a shred of proof that Obama was born in Kenya or in any other country than the USA.
So it is extreme fantasy to think that Obama was born outside of the USA (especially in Kenya, which was a long and risky trip in 1961) and was smuggled into the USA and that the parents or grandparents somehow convinced the officials in Hawaii that he was born in Hawaii. FANTASY.
Obama has shown the official birth certificate. The facts on it have been confirmed by officials. There were notices in the newspapers. There is the statement of the witness. There is not a shred of proof that Obama was born in any other country than the USA.
The governor of Hawaii is a man.
ReplyDeleteThe current governor of Hawaii is indeed a man, and he has said that Obama was born in Hawaii and that indeed he knew the parents and saw Obama as an infant.
ReplyDeleteIn addition to the current governor of Hawaii, the FORMER governor of Hawaii stated when she was the governor that Obama was born in Hawaii, and in fact in Kapiolani Hospital, which was the same hospital named by the current governor, and by the witness.
I saw this posted recently:
ReplyDeleteFor Obama to have been born in any other country than the USA requires the combination of:
(1) Travel by his mother during late pregnancy (highly unlikely because of the high expense and high risk of such a trip in 1961)
(2) Birth outside of Hawaii (also unlikely),
(3) Birth abroad despite the absence of any foreign documents or photographs showing either that Obama was born in a foreign country or that his mother was in the country at the time (highly unlikely)
(4) The willingness of the parents to lie about his place of birth (unlikely since it would be a crime to file a false government document, and the lie would be unnecessary since for most purposes naturalizing a foreign-born child would be just as good as his being born in the country)
(5) Successfully smuggling the child into the USA without a US travel document (extremely unlikely), and
(6) Convincing the officials in Hawaii that he was born in Hawaii (also extremely unlikely). ALL of these six things would be required for there to be a reasonable case that he was born in any other country than the USA. What are the odds of all six of them happening?
The willingness to believe that Obama was born outside of the USA despite the overwhelming odds against it and despite all the evidence that he was born in Hawaii is why Ann Coulter, Glenn Beck and Bill O'Reilly all call birthers crazy.